More Than Cookies: Raising Girls with Confidence, Character & Courage

Ryan shares the story behind the new documentary Cookie Queens, what it was like raising Olive through record-breaking Girl Scout Cookie seasons, and why the greatest success isn't selling cookies—it's raising confident daughters.

What does it really take to raise a confident daughter?

This week on Girl Dad Nation, Matthew sits down with Ryan, father of Olive, one of the featured families in the new documentary Cookie Queens.

While Cookie Queens follows four Girl Scouts through the excitement and pressure of cookie season, this conversation goes beyond cookie sales. Ryan shares what it's like raising a daughter with big dreams, supporting her ambitions without defining her by achievement, and navigating the balance between encouragement, competition, and simply letting kids be kids.

Together, Matthew and Ryan discuss:

• The father-daughter relationship in the documentary

• Encouraging confidence without creating pressure

• What Girl Scouts teaches about leadership, entrepreneurship, and resilience

• Supporting our daughters while allowing them to discover their own identity

• Why success looks different than most parents think

• Lessons every girl dad can learn—whether your daughter sells cookies or not

If you're raising daughters, this episode is filled with practical wisdom, humor, and heartfelt encouragement.

About Cookie Queens

Cookie Queens is a heartwarming documentary directed by Alysa Nahmias that follows four Girl Scouts and their families through one unforgettable cookie season. Rather than focusing solely on cookie sales, the film explores girlhood, ambition, confidence, family relationships, and the pressures young girls experience while discovering who they are. The observational documentary celebrates the joys and challenges of growing up through one of America's most recognizable traditions. 

Ryan's daughter, Olive, is one of the featured girls in the film. A record-breaking Girl Scout, Olive's journey highlights not only extraordinary achievement, but also the importance of family support, leadership, and finding your own definition of success. 

In This Episode

• Raising daughters with confidence
• Supporting ambition without creating pressure
• Behind-the-scenes stories from Cookie Queens
• Girl Scouts and entrepreneurship
• Father-daughter relationships
• Parenting through competition
• Letting kids discover their passions
• What every girl dad can learn

Resources

🎬 Cookie Queens Official Website

🎟️ Find a theater near you

📽️ Watch the official trailer

📸 Follow Cookie Queens on Instagram

🎧 Listen to more episodes of Girl Dad Nation

Girl Dad Nation is made possible by the generous support of our listeners and my wife, Executive Producer of my daughters and this podcast. 

Transcript

0:08

As we've talked about the film, talked about just all the experience and Girl Scouts, the ups and downs. To wrap this all up. This whole cookie business. Is it worth it? Is it worth it? Girl Dad Nation Welcome to Girl Dad Nation. I'm Matthew Krekeler, and today we have a special episode with Ryan, also known as Olive's dad. From the movie Cookie Queens. I got a great opportunity to prescreen this movie. It's coming out August 7th, and it looks at the journey of many young girls on their route to becoming cookie Queens by selling Girl Scout cookies. In this six week period of the year, that's intense. Lots of ups and downs. But yeah, excited to dive into that story with Ryan, so. Right. Welcome to the show. Hey, how are you doing? And I love that cookie queens. From my notes, it's rated G. And it follows several stories of many different girls and their families. Selling cookies for Girl Scouts. And they all have their own goals. Some are raising money for, like, the camps or different, different things like backpacks or other prizes at different levels. But yeah, it helps shape kids with goals, some entrepreneurial spirits, some sales tactics, giving them confidence, giving them public speaking opportunities and, yeah. But then also the film looks at some of the more harsh realities. So I also want to get into some of those topics, like like the tolls that it takes on kids and families. And yeah, just get from your experience, more behind the scenes, after I saw the film. So, yeah, thank you so much. And Olive is currently 12. Well, she's 14 now. Oh. She's 14. Got it. Okay. But she has 12 in the movie, so she's. 12 in the movie. Okay, great. Awesome movie timelines. Our government. So what's your. Real life like? You're much bigger than I thought you would get two years to grow, so. And my, my oldest right now is seven. Oh, and it's so amazing how fast the time goes by. Oh, yeah. Like between 7 and 14. It's like you blink and it's done. So like, you know, hold on to it for as long as you can. So and this is the first interview I've done with Girl Dad Nation where I now have four kids. So from from seven, five, three. And our youngest right now is like 20 months ish. She'll be so. Excited. And all four of them are girls. Wow. And they're all girls. Yeah, yeah, it's taken with the brand. No, I mean, it's that's fine. Boys are boring, so it's fine. Having grown up as a boy myself, I can just say all we do is fart and smell bad. That's all we do. So, like, girls I think are probably more rewarding to, you know, raise as parents. So I don't know. That's just my opinion. I'm biased, but, Yeah, well, like you, like my experience being a young boy is different than, like, their experience growing up there. Some are just natural differences. But it's also been a great joy to be a man, be the father figure in their life, and to also see the world through their eyes and the things that bring them joy and wonder and how to cultivate those things, how to give them similar opportunities. Sure. The privileges that I've had, Or any of them in Girl Scouts. So actually none of them are in Girl Scouts. Which was, just interesting to take a look at the film, because we haven't gotten them into Girl Scouts yet. No judgment. It's okay if they're not girls, so it just has to be the reason I see this. Because you were talking about what it's like to, you know, be a man raising girls. And the remarkable thing about this is, right now we have 12 girls and an all Girl Scout troop, including Olive, and, technically, I'm a troop leader. We have three other women that are also troop leaders, but I think of myself as more of a troop helper, because I do feel like in this particular organization, men should help, but women should leave. Yeah. That is I feel like that is very important. So, like, I'm kind of in the back, like, lifting heavy things, you know, and driving people around and stuff like that. But, the reason I bring this up is that I've really found myself over the years because some of these girls have been in the troop since kindergarten, and some of them came in a little bit later, but we've known them for years and years, and it's amazing how paternal you feel to all of them over time. So if you find that, you know, having a fourth child is not enough, you know, not just get your girls into Girl Scouts, but, you know, be a troop leader, come help add a troop. And like you would be surprised that, you know, know when they're Daisy's when they're, you know, just like little, little munchkins running around. It's, you know, they're fun. They're doing arts and crafts, but as they get older, it's like, oh, let me recommend this book to you. Have you seen this movie? You know, and stuff like that. Like one of the girls right before I left for this screening. I'm in New York right now. I don't live in New York. Normally. I'm in a hotel room. If you can see this behind me, that's great. But one of them. Right before I left, I ran over a copy of Kurt Vonnegut Slaughterhouse-Five to tour, and he texted me last night to be like, I just finished it. And I was like, first off, wow, that was fast. But to I love like like you're watching these minds just open, you know, and it's just you get to be part of that. So I don't know I think that's very cool. Very cool. Yeah. And I love the involvement of dads, especially in this generation. I know like my wife was in Girl Scouts. Our kids are not in Girl Scouts yet, but, my wife had an experience being in Girl Scouts. She enjoyed it. There were also like things that she didn't enjoy about it, but but through all of it, she learned great lessons. She made a lot of great friends. And to see her parents support her in that was awesome. Yeah, I think yeah, 100%. And, I mean, we're going to talk about this through the whole hour, but we've been kind of lucky that I mean, I don't think it's generational. I think that in every generation you have families where the dads are absent, like they're not literally gone. They're not deadbeat dads, but, like, you know, especially with Girl Scouts, like, oh, that that's a girl thing. I'm not doing it. Let me know when you want to, like, catch a baseball. I don't know what dads do. So, like, oh, that's something she's going to do with her mom. But for the most part, in our troop, that has not been true. And, I if you see the movie, there's a part where I'm in a cookie costume dancing, and we got that, costume I had driven up behind an older lady at what we call the cookie cabana, where you go to pick up more cookies for your troop to sell. And she's like, this is our last pick up. My girls are all graduating from high school, so this is the last, literally the last cookie booth we will be doing. We have these costumes. Do you want them? And I was like, sure, why not? And I brought brought them home and now all the dads wear them. Oh that's awesome. It's become a thing. Like it's kind of like the girls are out in their vest. They're selling, but like, the dads are out there, and it seems like such a silly thing. And it's played for comedy in the movie, but, like our dads that are in the troop take it very seriously. This is a really like this is a a way that they contribute. And part of it is that, you know, they they're saying to their daughters, like, I'm not better than this, I'm willing to do something silly on your behalf. So, I don't know. I mean, I think it's it's a remarkable thing. I no one forced them to do that, but they've all started doing it. I think that's so amazing. Yeah, I think it's actually, like a tremendous show of strength and just confidence when you're a dad and you're willing to be silly, especially in front of your kids, or even more especially in front of other dads. And sometimes we get self-conscious when we're with adults, but seeing the joy on our kids faces. Sure. That's that's who your, Yeah. Who you're showing up for so. Well. And also, this is this is just as less of a sentimental thing and more of a practical sales thing. People will buy from a Girl Scout if a dad is with them. I don't know why it works that way. I think that they're like, oh, this is something nice that like, you know, this dad is interested and involved and like, of course they are. They are, they were regardless of cookie sales or not. But I, I have noticed that like moms with their daughters, people will buy Girl Scout cookies, but dads with their daughters, people, people feel like that is a little piece of goodness in the world that is hard to find. And I think that they respond to that. And I think they're right to feel that way. I think that's really, you know, I, I don't know, I do you know, I do worry for the whole nation when, you know, dads will not hang out with their girls, you know. So like, I mean, that just seems it seems like something that we should do more of. So and I've said this so many times that like, you see us in the movie freezing our butts off. You see, you actually all over the country, you see girls freezing their butts off there. It turns out there is no warm part of the country in February. But, I mean, they're in San Diego and just outside Los Angeles and El Paso, Texas, and we're in North Carolina. And like all of us, froze that year while we were doing this movie. But, but I, I've said to so many people that this is important to know, and I don't know if these dads and these moms know this at the moment when they are out at these booths. But someday, like 15 years now, 20 years ago, I don't know, that girl is going to be out there with that parents granddaughter at a cookie booth. And she's going to say, you know, your dad and I are your granddad in me froze our butts off, you know, 20 years ago. And I never forgot that he did that for me. And I don't think 14 year old girls know how to express that, but I feel that they are feeling that and they will take that with them. And I think that's really, really important. Not just not just for cookie sales. Cookie sales aren't that important, but like these experiences that they're going to bring with them and they're going to pass on to other generations and things that they will do because they were done for them, too. These are important things. And, you know, it's such a small and easy thing to do. And it doesn't have worked out. Girl Scout cookies. It doesn't have to be good Girl Scout cookies. You can take your kid to a soccer game and cheer for them when they kick the ball. And the wrong goal. It doesn't matter, you know, like, they remember these things and doing these things over time, they will remember it and they will pass it on and do it for their kids and for your grandchildren. So, I don't know, I think so, yeah. I think it also strengthens bonds, whether it's parent, child or friends. When you're doing hard things and you're accomplishing goals and you're overcoming obstacles and you're doing that all together. Yeah, it's kind of like the foxhole mentality. And even though you're selling cookies, there's similar similarities to like, military tactics with how they spread out and how they organize. And then going through those like difficulties, the struggles, like enduring the pain. Sometimes if it's cold or whatever. Yeah. And and also live through that together. Yeah. It's not just the successes. It's the failures too. Like we went out there, it was cold. It was rainy. Nobody showed up. We sold 30 boxes, you know, in a place that we thought we were going to sell 500, you know, like going home and licking your wounds after that as a family, I think is very important to be like that sucked. But we're going to get back on the horse next time. We're going to try again. That was a weird metaphor. I don't know what that was, but, you know, yeah. I think, you know, success should be celebrated and failure should be explored to not just be like, that was terrible. It's done. You know? What? Can we do better next time? Was that just a bad place to have gone? Like, you know, no one was at that place. That's a eternal struggle for all Girl Scouts. By the way. Is was this just a bad spot? But, you know, was that customer rude to you? Was this, you know, whatever was the security guard at the at the shopping mall? Rude. Which is something that's happened to us. So, you know, I don't know, but. Yeah. And your daughter has been one of the top sellers, and I think, like, there's a point in the film where she had an 8000 box goal. Yes. And she surpassed that. I think the number was over 12,000. I've had. It, and it might have been different. But it's sort of a spoil things. It's. Yes, the number was very big that year. She's never sold that much before and she never sold that much again. We slowed down a little bit after that season, but just a lot of, a lot of, factors came together just right. That helped her succeed in that way. It wasn't having a camera crew following us around. I think that probably made it harder to sell cookies, but. But, you know, she's she's spunky, she's charismatic. You know, because, you know, we're talking about, like. Yeah, I'm trying to think how to say this. As a quick segue. Little girl came up to us at the screening in Brooklyn last night. There's a Girl Scout, and she's like, I'm just starting out, and I'm really shy and it's like, just sell cookies for a season. You will not be shy anymore. Because they always talk about entrepreneurship and, you know, business acumen and stuff like that. But really, what you're teaching people with the Girl Scout cookie program is bravery and confidence. Yeah. And nothing teaches you that more than just, you know, we're not really throwing you in the deep end to see if you swim. We're throwing you also, Cliff, to see if you fly and, you know, but I have seen so many girls who I would absolutely describe as terminally shy come out of their shells and do amazing things. And I think it's the cookie program that does it because it forces them to talk to strangers in a place where mostly the strangers will, even if they don't want to buy cookies, will receive them gracefully. And I think that helps a lot, because it's like, even if you get the no. No one likes hearing no when they're trying to sell cookies, but like, you will still get like a polite sort of like, oh, not today, sweetie, but I appreciate it kind of thing. And yeah, not feeling like you were, you know, you know, scared off or abused or. I don't know what the word is I'm looking for here. An interaction, my interaction like that builds up confidence. And I've seen like, our, our, troop is, not entirely neurodivergent, but there are a lot of neurodivergent kids in our troop, and I've had their mothers text me and be like, oh, my God, I saw at this booth today. And she, like, she opened up like a flower. Even when she's an absolute terrified to talk to strangers at all. And maybe it won't happen tomorrow, but today it did happen. And I love that. I love that for them. So, you know, I think. I don't know, I just. I was going I had the Segway for a reason. I can't hear what it was, but. Oh, but Olive has a lot of confidence. And so, you know, she she does sell a lot, and she puts a lot of time and effort into it. But for the other girls that we have a lot of sellers in our troop that are pretty big, it wasn't just Olive, to be clear. But like, I've seen them grow over time. And I think that they have learned they learn things, they watch and they go, that trick didn't work this time. And, you know, you know, I got to reword the way I'm saying this and stuff. And there's one scene in the movie where Olive tries to sell someone cookies. She's petting their dog, and she's like, you know, we actually have a dog friendly cookie. It's, the dose he does. I don't think she names. In the end, peanut butter and oatmeal and a few other things. It's basically a dog friendly cookie. It's made for humans. Tastes good. Dogs love it. My dog has a whole case of them sitting at home for her right now, but, she's a bit of a princess. That dog. She's in the movie too. But, But as Olive will tell you, that line does not work. That you want to not sell someone cookies. You know, tell them that dogs like them. So. So for some reason, though, I didn't want to buy dog food. I don't know, but, but she tried that line and it worked. And then she tried again. That didn't. And she's been kind of workshopped it for a whole year and was like, it doesn't work. We're going to move on to something else. So, yeah. So I don't know. I think that there is I don't even know what the original question is. I'm just rambling now. I'm sorry. But yeah, I think you can see, in the film she has some tricks that work, but she's constantly coming up with new things to say and improving her routine. And like when the, customer says this, you know, here's a good response for it. For example, she will tell you this constantly. And by the way, if any, and this is a Girl Dad podcast, if any women are seeing this, please, I beg you, when you go to a Girl Scout booth and you don't want to buy cookies, please don't tell them that you're watching your weight because they absorb that. Don't do that. Nobody thinks that's a good idea. But that's such a great point. Yeah. I'm. Glad you pointed that out. Yeah. So Olive has gotten annoyed at this. So now what she has started to do is a show, like, would you like to buy Girl Scout cookies? And, like, now I feel like I'm getting to I'm getting a little sad. I don't like buying Girl Scout cookies. You should really like. But you're so beautiful. And the things. And she doesn't sell them cookies. She just wants them to know that they can take care of themselves. And, I love that. That was her own thing. She came up with that. We didn't teach her to say that, olive is very sensitive to how other people feel. And, you know, I, I she does want to sell a cookie so much. She wants people to feel good when she leaves. So, yeah, I love that. It seems that Olive just has so much emotional intelligence, and. She does more than us, actually. So. And the way that she is able to speak confidently and to think critically and strategize and but then also developing her own voice. So I also want to get into that as well. You're so there's a part in the movie where and I also want to kind of go back just a little bit to just provide context. So in the movie, she's 12. She's 14 now. Yes. When did she start her cookie selling journey. So she is you can see at the very beginning it's only have very early, footage of her, as a Girl Scout Daisy. She started in, kindergarten. She's. This is her ninth year. I think if I counted that right. Ninth year and Girl Scouts. So she's been in this for a very long time. She was not always a giant seller, like all Daisy's. When you're at a Girl Scout booth, they're mostly running around and playing. And like, the parents are kind of being like, let me make change and stuff like that. But, and that's kind of the contract that you have with Daisy's. They're there to have fun and see that this is the thing that they will be more involved in as time goes on, and eventually they take over the booth and to the point where where they're carrying boxes, but mostly they're running it. But yeah, she's been in it for a very, very long time. And then there's a really powerful part in the movie where and I think she's playing with her mom. Yeah. And she's having this heart to heart, and she brings up the fact that she doesn't want to sell cookies anymore. And there's almost like this pressure from mom to say, well, we could we could get to that goal. We're so close. And I think it's 10,000. Yes, but it's the goal. But but that's always the tension, right? You don't ever want to sit there and say, I could have done it, but I chose not to. But that's not to say that's always the right thing to do. So my wife, Alice. Mom. Kerry. Like, she is always pushing to say, like, you know, you don't want to leave this on the table if you could pick it up. But and all of us saying, Mack, you know, there comes a point where we are pushing too hard. And I think that's kind of the girl character arc of, I mean, it's the documentary is not scripted, but there's kind of the character arc of Oliver in the movie is this concept of what is fair, what is, you know, what is your labor worth? You know, are you getting what you deserve? Are you being pushed too far? And I mean, that is very much Olive is, it's it's not just she's empathetic because she is very, very empathetic, but she's also very focused on justice. Yeah. You know, concepts of social justice and legal justice and all those things. And she mentions being she has to be a Supreme Court justice. She still does. Yeah, but, I know she'd be mad. I'm telling the story to the internet, but like, lots of kids, when they're very little, tell stories, and, you know, they make up stories because that's what kids do. And it's great that they do this, but they'll be like, there's a dragon, and the dragon is guarding a princess, and a knight has to come along and fight the dragon and blah, blah, blah, save the princess and whatever. And I know that's a certain stereotype in and of itself, but she never told this sort of stories. It was more like, there's a problem in the forest, and all the animals are going to get together and organize and figure out how to solve this. She's always been that way. So, which brings us to the idea of unions. And you can see in the credits they have other footage of, the four girls that are in the movie when they're younger and stuff like that. And there's, footage of Olive protesting with the WGA and Sag-Aftra during their, strike a couple of years ago. Oh, wow. Because we live in North Carolina and she came back from, her school does a camp every year, and we picked her from the campus, like, hey, while you were gone for the week, the WGU officially went on strike, and she's like, I'm going home and getting a shower. First off, because I've been that campsite for a week. Priorities, my friend. But then we're going to New York because I want to I want to walk with them and set up solidarity. So that's where that particular clip came from. But, but she's always been very focused on that. You know what? Just, in the media, she consumes in, you know, in, in the way she lives her life, it's she's very, very interested in labor rights and how it also affects Girl Scouts. In the movie, they talk about, am I getting enough money because, you know, you sell a box of Girl Scout cookies for $6, and it varies depending on your troop and council and part of the country. You're in and the bakery you work with. But on in general, some get more, some get less. But in general, of the $6 you spend on a box of cookies, the girls get one. And that has always bothered Olive. So, yeah. And, she, she makes a point, like we're doing all the work is I think we're a line from the movie or like, of course there's all the manufacturing and the other, like, brand and all this stuff, but you're like, but the the boots on the ground are these little girls. And everyone needs to get paid. Everyone should get a piece of the pie. No one is disputing that. But she's making a very clear argument. The labor union argument, that if I do the work, I should get some things fair for the labor I do. I do the hard part. The people that are, you know, the people that shipped the cookies, that's hard. That takes physical labor. The people selling the cookies takes physical and emotional labor. And, you know, the people that are, you know, in the office spending the money we make for them to for whatever they spend it on, like they're they're not doing any of the work. They're just they're are middlemen. And I think she wants a little bit of that money back. You know, I don't want to take it from the shipping company. I'd like to take it from people that I feel maybe are not using it in our best interest, when we're doing the work. So is her argument. I love that she's thinking. I love that she's thinking about fairness and, like, rights that she has even as a little girl. And, what protections are in place to because, like, normally there's child labor laws and like minimum ages to work in, different companies. But with Girl Scouts, I believe they start selling as young as five. Is that correct? And they can sell as soon as they are Girl Scouts and you can't be a Girl Scout before you're in kindergarten, so we'll say five. Okay. I don't know what the. It might be kindergarten. It might be to be five. It might be, but I'm a lot I'm a little vague on. Okay. But about that age kindergarten five and what protections are in place so that these young girls are not abused in the way that they are put in front of people to sell cookies? Like, are there limits on like how many hours per day they can sell or how many days they can sell or conditions that they can sell? Things like that. I'm just kind of curious. I don't know, to answer that question. To be fair, most people are not selling the way Olive does. Most people are selling like most people are selling more like Aria does in the movie, where it's like, she's a daisy. She has a goal of 55 boxes. She moves up to 60 at one point. That's not an unreasonable amount to sell over several weeks, you know, and you're selling to your friends and family and you're just kind of getting a feel for it. I think that's very normal. And every time Olive has been reported in the news, inevitably the television anchor, after they cut back to she was like cheese. When I was a Girl Scout, I only ever sold 100 boxes. You know, it's like, I think there are some very basic measures in place that nobody's going doing ridiculous, abusive things to their own kids so they can be like, this is too much. You know, we don't want to do that much. I don't think there are specific rules at the council level, and I'm not a lawyer and I have not looked into this, so I don't I'm not prepared to speak to you about like child labor laws, but, my guess would be they would say nobody is forcing anyone, so you don't actually have to sell cookies at all to be a Girl Scout. To be clear, it isn't like you're working in a sweatshop where you have to, you know, we're locking the doors for eight hours and you can't leave. And if you leave, we'll give your job to somebody else. Yeah. There's also the direct supervision in most cases of the parent or guardian. Yeah. Selling with their kids in, you know, circumstances which I acknowledge. Yeah. But also I just, I just want to be clear that, like, Olive's ridiculous goals and successes are unusual. Most people do not do that. Even in most councils, you have someone that sells like, say, 2000 boxes, like Shannon. Elizabeth is Shannon. Elizabeth's goal is actually very high for most Girl Scouts, and some beat that, some do not. Some want to do that, but they do not. But I think that most people don't spend as much time like it's something they do. And even the high schoolers, it's not something they're like breaking their back, doing. And they shouldn't be, I don't think, but, and of course, as you said, like the parents are always the ultimate safety valve. If you were ever concerned about your kids, you could be like, we're doing this too much, or I don't feel safe at this booth or whatever like that. You can always just pack it in and go home and watch Netflix, and that is okay, too, you know? Yeah. There's a lot of power given to the parents to make those determinations for the kids. But also. There is no pressure from either the council at the local level, at the regional level or Girl Scouts USA to sell more cookies. There is no like you didn't hit your sales goal. It's not. It's not a reproduction of Glengarry Glen Ross. It's not. You know, cookies are for closers only or anything like that. So, you know, like the movie does follow some fairly high sellers, but I don't think that's how most Girl Scouts across the country are, and I don't think they should be. I think you should be learning some valuable skills. And if you're selling really well, that's great. And if you're not, you're still learning something very important. But yeah. And in Olive's case, could you speak to just. I'm, I'm kind of curious. The context of, like, what would be the longest sales day if you could say that? And then, like, because it's a six week period of the year, George, which is great, that it's condensed. It's not something that's consumes most of their year, but during during that six weeks, how many days a week would Olive be selling? The year at the movie, it was a lot. And that's not our normal thing, but, we would all the weekend days, we would be out there and we would do books and wagon around and stuff like that. We would, it wasn't seven days a week or anything like that. We, we a lot of our high sales because she's gotten very good at selling. Not so much that. Yeah, she's selling 24 seven. And she knows how to convert to she would say, oh, do you want to add an extra box, make it an even 30. I'm like, this. All all the girls in the movie had something they said, that's in the movie. And all the other girls are like, I'm using that next year. That's it. Yeah. Ours is the thing about the the you're paying for 20 cookies, but they're sandwich cookies, so you get 40. Like we start using that immediately. That was that was genius when we heard that. Yeah. So how much did she work? She worked a lot. Especially that year. She worked a lot. And yeah, joking that the camera crew went home, because they're like, we've done like a bazillion hour day. We're done. We we're not filming anymore. I'm like, okay, we're going to keep going, you know? Yes. If I was on set, I was curious if the camera crew would just be, like, buying boxes. Just because there's a sweet treat. If I was. In, we gifted a lot of boxes to them, too, because it's, you know, like, Antonia was our, our, cinematographer. It's like that camera's not light, so we're just kind of feeding him sugar all day. But apparently. And we did not meet any of the other girls. Actually knew more about Nikki's cat than I knew about Nikki until the filming finished. The cat. You see it rolling around on the, a box of Thin Mints at one point. The cat's name is boyfriend. So we knew about boyfriend, but we did not actually know Nikki's even name until the movie was complete and she didn't want us to. The director didn't really want us to compete against each other, you know? So she didn't want us to know anything, which is fine. I think that was the right decision. But, why was I telling you this? I can't remember, Oh, geez. I lost my train. I thought, what are we talking about? We were talking about just like the hours of selling. Oh. So some of the some of the sales strategies I work in marketing, so I appreciate, like the, the messaging and the language, that she's developed and why. She was selling it. So. Yeah. So, so, yeah. So we did not know about our who's one of the four girls in the movie, but apparently the film's policy, the film crews policy was cookies from any of the girls are fine except for aura because ours number. Her goal is so low that the camera crew could have accomplished it by just buying cookies, and they didn't want to do that, because that would ruin the whole tension of what she was trying to achieve. And, you know, our is very small. She's in kindergarten when this movie is being filmed. So like, you know, a 55 box goal is enormous for her. You know, it's oh, that's a mountain she's never climbed before. So, you know, it was smart enough to set a very small mountain, a step and raise her goals from there in a very strategic way, as IRA does. So, yeah. One part I like about the movie, too is it shows that IRA has diabetes, I believe. And so she's selling cookies. And I think like at the time of filming, there wasn't a diabetic sugar free option of cookies. She still is if there is, still isn't. Yeah. So that just kind of sheds light on just that part of the market. But yeah, she is faithfully selling cookies and it's so sweet. And she also deals with people saying no. And that confidence again, just to ask. And also the the ability to get through those rejections is a great lesson, whether you're five or whether you're an adult. It's something you. Know to read, though, that that blows my mind that people won't find her because she's adorable. But that's also something that movie covers is like, is is our worth wrapped up in our adorableness? Not mine. I'm not. Yeah. But, like, you know, I mean, that's the ongoing tension with Nikki. That's. If that were if we were to follow the camera for a couple more years, that might be the tension with Aria, too, is like, you know, you know, are you cute enough to do this? Are you pretty enough to do this? Are you young enough to do this? And, you know, they they all have to wrestle with that, you know, like, am I only worth something if I, a good, you know, role model? I don't have the words I'm looking for here for, you know, the Girl Scout cookie program. And, I mean, I think that's hard, and I think that I don't feel like Boy Scouts have to have that problem. But I feel like absolutely every Girl Scout in America has that concern that, you know, and you see it happen to Nikki's sisters, too, like, you know, oh, you're too old to be a Girl Scout, you know? And they need. Yeah. Nikki is the hook to pull people in. That doesn't seem fair to me. Like, you know, they. These people who were these two sisters? Nikki and, Naya Nala, who were the top sellers in their council in earlier years, are now being told maybe you weren't worth anything if you got when you got older and I, I, I don't like that. And it's not unique to Girl Scouts. This is a problem that women across the country, across the world probably face, in all industries. You know, they talk about Hollywood, you know, like, oh, you're only important if you're a 20 year old starlet. And it's it's not okay. It's not okay that we do this. And, but this is something in the movie that they are understanding. Maybe not in this grand concept. I just spewed out here, but they're seeing it. They're feeling it. They're poking against that for the first time. And, you know, but I don't know. I don't like that about the world. And I wish I knew how to change that. But yeah, I'm putting like, the value and identity in the number, like how many boxes you sold. And there's a part in the film where all of. And she's speaking to her best friend. It's one of my favorite parts. And she's, she's saying, what? What am I if I am not the top cookie seller? Yeah. And it's sort of precocious because you don't expect a 12 year old to say that. But like, I mean, who hasn't felt that way about something? I mean, whether you sell cookies or like, who am I if I'm, you know, the I'm not support person, who am I if I'm not the quarterback and I break my leg, who am I supposed to be now? Or, you know, whatever it might be, I'm the rich girl. And like my parents made a bad stock, stock purchase. And, you know, now we're eating McDonald's every day. I don't know, like, people build identities. Like, this is how we get through our days, whatever our identity might be. And if that we're taken from you, like. Or you just could not continue to achieve that, like, I think that fear is, she vocalized, a fear that I feel we all have as grown ups to it, not just as kids, but, and it's a concern, right? Like you don't want to, especially with Olive, where it's like, if I'm not the top seller, but you could be the top seller as long as you keep running as fast as you can. If you stop running, you know, then maybe you won't be. And you would have. You would feel like you have no one to blame but yourself. Like that is a there's a certain terror in that. And you know, I, I do worry for her. And she has slowed down since the movie. To be clear, she still sells lots and lots of cookies, but it's not like it was that year. That was a magical year for a lot of different reasons. So I think as parents, it's important to just share that, especially with our kids, that our kids know that they are known and loved and that their identity is not wrapped up in like, weather, whether they're star athlete or star seller or or any, any kind of those, metrics. But that like to be confident in themselves just because of who they are, not what they achieve. And in the movie, Olive's best friend says, well, you're my best friend. Yeah. And so her relationship to Olive is based on their friendship and not she doesn't see her friend as just the top seller. But she's like, whatever accomplishments or failures she would still be her friend. And that is worth more than the title of best seller. And I thought that that was such a sweet moment in the film. Yeah, and that's her name, Celia. The the best. Friend. Oh, yes. Celia. And she, I mean, they go to the same school now. They didn't actually, when that was filmed. They do now. But, Celia is actually almost always our second top seller, behind Olive. And neither of them think about this as, like, I have to be the best or I have to be the top seller, but, I mean, Olive does have those concerns, but like, Celia does not see it that way at all. It's just like, this is a thing we do, but this is not like Celia is very good at selling cookies also. But she 100% is like, that's not what her interest is. She doesn't want to be a salesperson. She wants to be, I think at this moment in time, a lawyer and or a marine biologist, and it changes from time to time, but as it should. But, but, yeah, this isn't like Celia doesn't have this in her identity. This is not, you know, something she wants to be, like, known to be a selling a marketing person or anything like that. So, so, yeah, it's an absolutely no brainer for Celia to be like this. This is not important to me, that you're the top seller. And I think it's so good that she said that to her. And also, I think my wife, Alex. Mom? Yeah. Saying near the end of the film, because there's also this tension in the movie between, like, is your mom and your dad pushing you to sell these cookies, or are you pushing yourself to sell these cookies? And it comes down to late in the film, there's this opportunity to sell more cookies for more money. And all of this, like, I really don't want to sell more cookies, but I don't want to pass this up. And also just Alice personality is very much like she does want to be the top seller. She does want to be the best, and she wants to sell these cookies and get the money and do the things we can do with that money. Which, I mean, you know, the the year that we sold in the movie, Alice sold a lot of cookies, of course, but the whole troop did. We had close to 30 girls in the troop at the time. It shrunk significantly. So there may have been, like, 25 girls. I don't remember exactly what we had that year, but, middle school hits and you lose, girls. It's just the nature of Girl Scouts. I don't like it. Sure. You know, I think, you know, we're fortunate that most of our girls are in Montessori schools. And I say our girls, I mean, literally the whole troop. Most of them are in a montessori public school. And the nice thing about Montessori, whether you agree with their educational philosophy or not, is that weird? People are allowed to be weird. Montessori. And I wish I had that as a kid. And so I think there's been less of like, oh, you're still a Girl Scout. That's not very cool, you know? So like, I think they've dodged that. So, like, we didn't have the troop decimated down to like three kids, but we we don't have 24 anymore. But that year we sold over as a troop, over 30,000 boxes of cookies. It was a lot of cookies. A lot of girls sold multiple thousands of boxes. So the movie suggested elves out there knocking out these big numbers and everyone else is not. And this is absolutely not true. There are a lot of big sellers in our troop, and that money goes to a lot of important things that we do. So, I guess I'll speak to what, like when you make those big numbers, what's the return for the kids and the troop and everything? Okay, so as we said, $6 a box when you sell it in Charlotte, North Carolina. And these numbers are not necessarily true all across the country, but we get our troop gets $1.10. I think it starts at $0.90. But if you hit certain metrics, like everyone send out a sales email, if you sold candy in the fall sale, blah, blah, it goes up. So we get a $1.10 per box. And in the movie, something else happens that bumps that up later on. But generally speaking, $1.10 a box. So when you sell 30,000 boxes, we end up with quite a bit of money in our bank account. And we use that. They mentioned it very briefly in the movie, like, hey, do you think we'll do the Puerto Rico trip? We did do the Puerto Rico trip long after the movie was filmed. We took the entire trip to Puerto Rico. They did all sorts. They jumped off waterfalls, they rode horses. You know, they just had an amazing week in Puerto Rico. I got to see the Costco at Puerto Rico. I was just there, the Beatles, because, like I said, men should help, but women should lead in Girl Scouts. So, I was just there, a support person. I didn't get to see a single thing. But, but they all had an amazing time. They were in the ocean. Just, just all sorts of fun things happen in Puerto Rico. And that cost a lot of money. And cookies paid for that. They did their their bronze award a couple of years ago. They just finished their silver awards this year. And that cost money to, gather resources for it. But they make lasting positive change in their communities with these projects. Most of the girls for their silver award this last year went into Metro School in Charlotte, which is, a school uptown that only caters it. I'm not sure if it's a public school. It's not a private school. It's run by the Charlotte-Mecklenburg School District, but it's only available to people with severe disabilities. We tried to bring them donuts at one point, and staff has, like, 300 people on it. We couldn't do it, because almost every student has their own teacher at this place. It's a remarkable thing that I'm sure happens other places in the country, but I'm not aware of one. But they had, a room I went into a whole long thing here. Can I talk about this for an hour? I promise I won't. They they had a room that we converted. We we partnered with Ikea, and we refurbished the room, and we prepared the room so that they could use it as a cafe and use it to train some of their older students that are here to do food service so they can get some jobs, once they leave the school, which is kind of an immediate concern for them, but also so they can, you know, serve coffee to the staff and, you know, run little events within the school and stuff like that. So they help one group help with that. And, you know, like repainted the room, did some art in there or just cleaned out trash from the 70s that was still in there. I'm pretty sure there was some asbestos stairs. I'm just making that up. But the other group went outside. There was a greenhouse that wasn't used as full of trash and dirt and stuff. They clean that up, they rebuild it. Put gardening beds in there, planted stuff. And now that's a functioning greenhouse so they can come out to both students, clean them out there for quiet time, but also like they have a gardening program there now and stuff like that. And that, that cost money. We spent money at Lowe's and Home Depot to, you know, do the and Ikea and stuff to do these things and build these things and but we made the world a better place. And part of that was funded by cookie sales, trips. We went on we just, two weeks ago was the Girl Scout National Convention happens once every three years this year in Washington, D.C. we brought the whole trip to it, which was wild for them because they're like, okay, it's a Girl Scout convention. They had no idea how big this was. They also did not know that everyone's gonna be like, oh my God, you are in Cookie Queens. You're a movie star, you know? And they're like one line in the movie, I'm not a movie star, but I still am signing autographs. So, you know, it was like, people are like, oh my God, this is amazing. I get to they got to be movie stars for a week and then like, it it's been kind of a weird year in that regard because like, all of the Nikki and Chateau Elizabeth and, you know, all went to Sundance in January. Okay, great. The whole town. And that was the first time they met each other. And, we shared a house. Was that this past January. This this January, that just this year, 2026. I was at that Sundance, actually. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's very cool. Did did you see Cookie Queens there? So I did not see Cookie Queens. We, we were there for like, kind of just two days, but. Yeah. Yeah. The problem with Sundance is that there's 90 films and it's like, I want to see all of them, and I will see maybe two of them, you know, that's where I'm from. But but for that week in Park City and it's just moved to Boulder, but for Park City, the whole town is basically movie like aficionados, people that are there because they love movies or they make movies. And so these four girls are walking around this very small town as movie stars, like people are stopping them to take selfies and get. So it's like maps and stuff like that. And then when that's done, they had to go home and take like algebra tests and I and I said, I said to Nikki, I was like, you know, you got a real Hannah Montana situation going here. And she said to me, Who's Hannah Montana? Oh, wow. I was like, oh my God, I'm too old. I was telling you this for a reason. Why was I telling you this? I was so, so yeah. So the the cookie money. To get back to the original topic, we took all the girls to, Washington, D.C. and set them up for weeks, like a good this convention and see what Girl Scouts across the country are doing and, you know, also get the stars from. And that's what started the whole rant there. But, and our next trip will be to, we're going to Banff in Canada. That'll be our first international trip just across the border. So, you know, if there's problems. And then from there, when they're in high school, we'll go over to it, we'll fly to Europe. And all of that is funded by cookie money. Now, more money would be better than less money. I started this by saying of the $6 we get one. But yeah, but since we have big sellers and people are dedicated, we are able to say we can take the whole troop and do these amazing experiences and we can help our communities, through the silver word. Eventually they'll be doing their gold awards. And, you know, these are things that, the money helps. I don't think these are the reasons to do Girl Scout cookies, but it is a powerful incentive to be able to say, hey, we're all going to get on a plane and go to another country and have some fun or and learn some things and see some things. And, and Puerto Rico is not a third country, but we are moving towards international travel. So, so to answer the question, the money definitely gets used in a, what I think is a very positive way. Yeah, yeah. That's wonderful. And, Olive has been advocating she wrote a letter, and has been advocating for just more fair treatment, and more money going to the girls. When you said, like, one out of every $6. Yeah. So having more go to the girls. Where is that in the process? Like, now that the film has been released, what kind of conversations has has she been able to meet directly with Girl Scouts? So they mentioned in the movie about, her getting onto a non-voting board, that board didn't meet once last February. Not this one that just went by the one before it and never again since. And it felt to me I can't speak for Olive, but it felt to me like, well, let's just let's placate this person a little bit, which I don't think is okay. The CEO of our council just saw the movie for the first time at the Girl Scout convention. She's in it. Actually, I don't know if she knew she was in it. Surprise. There's a piece of it. There's a news clip in there. We're all on television with her, but, she did not seem thrilled by the movie. I don't know, we'll have to see. I guess what happens next. But, I do think that there will be some questions in Charlotte when people see the movie to say, how did that work out for you? Did you get to have a voice here? And if not, why not? And I think that our council will have to answer that question one way or another. I don't know what they will say. I, I, we would like to get more from them. And I think as in all like, I feel like America has a very hostile view towards unions right now. And this is the pendulum swings back and forth, but I think that most unions are not about stealing from their employers. They're about getting what's fair. And do you get a little I get a little. Everyone goes home to their families, feeds their children, is happy with what they get. You know, instead of feeling like you got it all and I got nothing, you know, and I know it's always pretty. That is us versus them. But in the end, even the most vicious union strikes eventually have to come together and say, we are going to work together and make money, and we're each going to get a little bit of it. We're all going to work together and be happy with it. So I don't, I, I feel like that's what all of is pushing towards. We haven't gotten there yet, but I think that we just need to get our council to, you know, agree that maybe a little more would be good. We'll be talking to them more about that and see where it goes. So we're not asking for, you know, $3 a box, but. Well, I really hope that there is progress in that area, especially like it's so admirable that Olive's speaking up, advocating for yourself. My kids just got home. Hello. What's your name, please? Yeah, this is Maggie. Hey, Maggie. Baby, I'll be. We're almost done. Okay. It's okay. I'll talk a thing. Yeah. So, the other thing I wanted, I wanted to say just about the film is that I love how the director took an approach that was just more observational. Oh, one of these different stories and not really putting, like, a specific lens on. It. And saying, like, it's not necessarily a promo for Girl Scouts, but it's also not. So I'm. Not saying that Girl Scouts is like terrible either. So it's just kind of you have these different. Yes. I don't think you can say it's a pro Girl Scout film. When one of the girls says it's basically child labor to the camera. I don't think it's an anti Girl Scout film. I think it shows that everything is complicated. And I think there are so many amazing things Girl Scout as an organization does, but that does not mean there isn't room to improve organizations that you love. And I can tell Maggie. You you can. Thank you. Whenever I have the microphone, she loves to just sing into them. I think you. Do. You sing Bobby Dolly, I sting and. Oh, oh, baby. Well, that was beautiful, Maggie, I love that. Thank you. What are you talking about? Sorry. Well, yeah, just the way that the film kind of came together. I know we're almost out of time, but. No, it's cool. It's like working with the director. And what was her relationship like with the girls? So. So it is an observational, documentary. It's what you would call the form. And she kind of filmed it. Like there are adults in it because you can't remove adults entirely. But she wanted you to think of, like, the peanuts, like Charlie Brown, like, you know, the girls are there, but occasionally just like, blah, blah, you know, kinda thing. Like, we're not really. We intrude on their world more than we are part of it, and I think that's a nice way to think about it. As far as the movie goes. So, so you can see how they think and feel without us in a row. This is all. I'm going to put this on lips. And so we had one cameraman by, we had one cameraman. His name is Antonio. And the girls got very close to him. They were, you know, he he's always. What I love about him is like, I, I saw him at Sundance and since then. But at Sundance, he was talking to R and he was, just down on his knees talking to her, because that's the way that he treats kids. Like I'm down at your level. You don't talk up to me. I come down to you. Which I think is a lesson lots of people could learn from. But they they love him. My dog does not like people, but she loves Antonio. So, like, once the dog accepted him into the tag, everyone else is like, Antonio's fine. So. So they were willing to be themselves and be open around Antonio while he had a camera? Yeah. So it was just, you know, I, I would find that hard to do, but they were very like, you know, he's just he was part of the family. So, the director was just part of the family. Is just part of the family. So. Yeah. That's great. And again, just the way that you kind of see these moments again, like Oliver talking to you or talking to your mom and just that openness that she has, the comfort and the trust like that takes a lot, especially when you're speaking to a parent or anyone you know, like in a position of power to, to speak openly about that. And yeah, it is really great to see just how she comes alive in the film. We have always talked to all of, like an adult, even when we save the baby, talk to the dog. We obviously she was very little. We've always spoken to her. Much like I'm speaking to you right now. We've always taken her opinion seriously. Her her our suggestion. Seriously. You can't always say yes to your kids, but, like, you know, we always treated her as an equal member in the room. And I think that that just had that has paid out because she now treats everyone else that way. She doesn't feel like she's lesser because she's younger. She doesn't walk into a room and assume that she's not allowed to have a voice there. I, I don't know if I ever did anything right as a parent, I think is the one thing. So, and you can see it in the movie that she is very much she doesn't lack confidence. And, I've, I love that about her. You know, not because it helps her sell cookies, but because it's going to open so many doors for her, and she can do anything she wants because she's willing to go in and ask for it and if necessary, fight for it. I think that's good. I mean, I, I don't know, I, I joke that mostly I just fed her and she did all the work herself, but, you know, I, I feel like her future is very bright, and I feel that about so many of the girls. I agree, so I don't know. Yeah, that's one thing that I try to advocate for. Like I have the saying on Girl Dad Nation that we're trying to father future leaders and like Olive's already way on her way, which is amazing. Before I get to my final question, I did want to just ask, like, as we've talked about the film, talked about just all the experience and Girl Scouts, the ups and downs to wrap this all up, would you say? And then also, if you could speak, thinking from all perspectives, this whole cookie business, is it worth it? Is it worth it? Yes, absolutely. But like everything, there's always like qualifications to it. The, the money it has produced has led us do amazing things with the troupe. And like I said, for our community to like the title one schools, we've helped, you know, the trips we've taken, the experiences that we've been able to do and the things we've been able to do for others. Unquestionably, that was a universal good, there's no doubt about that. The way that it improves a girl's confidence, the way it improves so much about her character, the way that it connects them to their parents in ways that they might not, especially as they get older. It's like, oh my God, mom and dad, you're so embarrassing. Get away from me! They will still do cookie boost with them, and sometimes they're embarrassing at the cookie booth too. But like this keeps them from losing that connection entirely. Is it hard work? Yes. Is the conditions terrible? Sometimes, yes. Everyone in that movie was freezing at some point or another. Like I said, sometimes bad things happen to cookie Booth. Sometimes someone says something really awful to your girl. But overall, is it worth it? Is the bad in the good? Which is, I think, yes, there is some things that are not super great about anything, but in here there's some things that I don't love. But there's so many things about that I do absolutely love. And is it worth it? Yes, 100%. Thank you. And then, for the folks that may be watching this, I try to put this on YouTube or sometimes clips on Instagram. I noticed your shirt. May I see, cookie security. Cookie security. I love it. They had a new cookie this year. Is the, the explore more? And, it was, for lack of a better term, it was under embargo when they first showed it to our counterparts. Like, yeah, take pictures of it. You can't put it on Instagram. You know, we're just going to let you try the cookie and see what it's like. And so you're prepared to sell it in a couple of weeks. And so all the people that were there doing this event to show you the cookie, they all had cookie security shirts on because they're like, okay, yeah, we gotta protect the cookie. But, but then there was something like, this is fantastic. I need to have this shirt. So, as you can see, the Girl Scout hornet's nest, that's the name of the Charlotte, Scout Council, so. But, yeah. Cookie security. I feel like every dad should have one of these. I love that. Yeah, you have the whole entourage with this cookie. So you go with, like, sunglasses, like I can't talk to my girl, you know? All right, I don't I don't know, whatever. So. And of course, the cookie costumes and all that, that's fun. But, you know, like I said, all the dads are wearing them now, so I think, you know, it may be the fashion trend of the next year. Let's see how the movie goes. So, but we'll see, I don't know. And then to wrap up this episode of Girl Dad Nation and this is a segment I like to do, at the end of each episode. Okay. Yeah. Pretend like you're speaking directly to your daughter. I'm not here. Okay. What would you like to say as her dad? About anything at all or just. Anything at all like this is. This is just an opportunity to leave your daughter a special message. Okay. I will say this before I say that, my daughter used to joke that she had never been off the East Coast. Like, the furthest she went was accidentally to Tennessee. You know, that was like, you know, she really was very like my my, my mother, her grandmother lives in Pennsylvania and her other grandmother lives in South Carolina, and we live in Charlotte. So there's really, like an East Coast corridor or down like I-95 that, you know, that was pretty much her whole stomping ground. But like this year, if I had to say something to my daughter, she's become a world traveler and a lot of it's because of this movie. But like we have been all over this country, we went, unrelated to the movie, went to London and Paris this, spring break. She's seen so much of the world, and I cannot wait to see what she does next. Like where she goes next, what adventure she has, like, you know, open and not just what we'll do together, but, you know, when she's going to be getting on that plane by herself to go, you know, see some part of the world I've never been to. And, you know, the places that your children go when you stop going with them. Yeah. I can't wait to see what she does. I just, you know, I'm not concerned about her future. I feel like everything is going to work out fine. I'm not generally an optimist, but I am an optimist about this. But it's the adventure she's going to have on the way. The whole doctor. Seuss. Kind of like, oh, the places you'll go, I can't wait. I hope she sends me a postcard, is what I would say to her. Send me a postcard. So I love that. Ryan. It's been such a pleasure talking to you today. So thank you so much for your time. And, yeah, for everyone out there. Thank you for listening and, you can go see the movie Cookie Queens. It comes out August 7th. So my hope is to have this episode released. So probably by the time it's released, it's going to be available. But yeah, check it out. It's a really powerful film. There's so many amazing moments in it. And if you do see this, if you do see this video in the week, it's coming out. Documentaries do not stay in theaters very long, so do not wait to see it and tell your friends to see it so it will stay in theaters longer would be my request free. So. And yeah, please, connect with me. You can look at Girl Dad Nation on Instagram and Facebook. I'm also at GirlDadNation.org And until next time, go be a dad. Goodbye. I’m proud of you, Daddy.